Startups, Silicon Valley & Female Founders

00:00:00: I would say that generally as women, when we talk to people... We are more precise towards our product.

00:00:04: We know all the flaws of our products.

00:00:07: so ...we tend to be more humble while men if they have to sell a product and they're not humble at all.

00:00:16: So i think At the beginning of this journey ,I was also More humble but later with time .i understood That you must have conviction because If You don't believe in something nobody else is gonna do that.

00:00:31: Welcome to Hello!

00:00:33: The podcast where we

00:00:34: break tech bubbles before they break us and when you talk about people who make tech more humane.

00:00:49: Today's conversation on the Hello!

00:00:51: Podcast is with Alessia Pacanella.

00:00:55: She has a former colleague of mine, now co-founder at Wipeflow, a tech startup backed by Y Combinator, We'll be talking about her journey, obviously from Italy to Switzerland.

00:01:08: To the US?

00:01:09: From university where Alessia studied at ETH Zurich... ...to corporate world and now probably pretty crazy AI startup world!

00:01:17: We will also talk about Alessio's start-up white flow.

00:01:20: what problem the product solves how it is built.. ..and whats next?

00:01:24: And Alessi will share experiences building a tech startup as female founder in very competitive and male dominated field.

00:01:32: Let's dive in.

00:01:40: Welcome, Alessia to the Hello!

00:01:55: In San Francisco, a friend's hockey house.

00:02:01: So they built this very nice place where there are a lot of builders that live and work in the same places.

00:02:09: I went there for mainly business and work And I have to say that San Francisco's vibe is always energetic and it gives a lot of energy, motivation.

00:02:20: It was pretty crazy!

00:02:22: And what have you been doing in San Francisco this time?

00:02:25: So we're developing new product right now... ...and mostly talking to users and going into events trying to make the user test platform and understanding user testing.

00:02:35: basically so…

00:02:36: Very cool.

00:02:37: We'll talk about your product afterwards as well a little bit, but I quickly want to stay a bit on this life that you have now right between Switzerland and the US so you travel back-and forth.

00:02:48: has there been also moments in this crazy journey where you thought how did i end up here?

00:02:54: Yes every day if I think of two years ago or two years before version me I wouldn't recognize myself because like it was very planning, so I was planning everything in my life and I was trying to understand what would do every day of the next six or twelve months.

00:03:14: And now I live much more day by day!

00:03:17: It's very nice because you don't have to be attached to a specific plan.

00:03:21: You can just modify that according with your needs.

00:03:25: Of course i've got my routine here at Zurich and I also have one in San Francisco where we support systems both places.

00:03:32: it is easy for me switch between them But I really like that.

00:03:36: it can just move around, and then i don't have to stick to one place because maybe you know... ...I've got a job.

00:03:41: And they go into the office every day so.. ..I think that's- I really liked it!

00:03:46: So its crazy but not so stressful for me.

00:03:50: It actually gives my energy and makes feel fulfilled.

00:03:54: Oh, very nice.

00:03:55: I'm happy to hear that!

00:03:57: We first met through our job in the corporate world basically and you also are now building a YC-backed startup.

00:04:05: so how was that transition?

00:04:06: Did you always imagine being a founder when you were smaller or...?

00:04:11: Actually no... I've always had big ambitions but didn't have the dream of becoming a founder ...I think i had the dream doing something big.

00:04:21: Since I was a child, I always had this vision of me doing big things.

00:04:26: And I think came also from my parents.

00:04:27: they're always installed at these sort of like mentality notes in me and my brothers as well.

00:04:33: And Founder's life was just a way to reach that goal, but it didn't have to be...I considered different paths.

00:04:42: one of them is also like a PhD.

00:04:44: At the end i ended up funding company But he did not have to do that

00:04:48: Cool.

00:04:49: So you grew up in Italy, right?

00:04:51: And also with a few brothers.

00:04:53: so how is that growing and now moving to Switzerland and the

00:04:56: U.S.?

00:04:57: I lived here for the first twenty one years of my life yes.

00:05:03: Italy's amazing!

00:05:04: And i love italy.

00:05:05: I miss italian food mostly...and culture as well..so I really missed Italian culture.

00:05:12: but when I go back....I don't miss much mentality because I don't want to generalize, of course.

00:05:19: But there is still this mentality about finding a job and then just following the path that society gives you... ...and not doing more.

00:05:30: So it's very few people who wants do more.

00:05:33: And i am very surprised because in last year.. ..i met alot from Padova That somehow managed to do more.

00:05:43: I don't know.

00:05:44: I met a guy that is very, very high right now in Anthropic but he worked at Replit and managed to do a lot of things At Replit.

00:05:51: then i met tons of Wacom Nintor people And yeah some of them come from Padova and Met a Lot Of Founders International founders That Come From Padovas.

00:06:00: so Im Very Impressed By That But They All Moved Away.

00:06:04: So I would say...of course there are always People Who Want To Obtain More higher goals, and yeah they're just not in part of anymore.

00:06:15: They are just not needed any

00:06:17: more.".

00:06:17: So this growth mindset probably also led you to studying in another country right?

00:06:22: You moved to Switzerland to study at ETH.

00:06:24: how was that experience?

00:06:26: Initially traumatizing?

00:06:29: I remember I moved from Milan because i'm studying in Milan to Zurich six months after covid happened.

00:06:37: so had very, very few friends because I didn't manage to meet my friends.

00:06:41: Also ETH Master is not that easy.

00:06:44: so i was just concentrating on my studies and i wasn't going out and partying.

00:06:48: So...I didn't have many friends.

00:06:50: Then Covid happened And..i didn't meet anyone else.

00:06:53: for the rest of the master From a social experience was not really, very nice but from the topic point of view like what I had opportunity to study for me it was amazing.

00:07:04: Like i did the master in computer graphics and It's Not that easy to find the master That is so focused on computer graphics And visual effects...and For me it Was my dream!

00:07:13: Like..I studied all The topics that I Really,really loved and still remember everything that I Studied because I was Very passionate about it.

00:07:22: The experience itself was a bit traumatizing, but after COVID stopped and I came back to work.

00:07:27: And then you also started the company when I met you?

00:07:31: After that it was amazing.

00:07:33: in a fell in love with Zurich... ...and i started building my life here!

00:07:38: Now Zurich is home!

00:07:41: After you did a small excursion into the corporate world….

00:07:44: …you returned back to ETH – why was that?

00:07:47: Yes, so went back to the ETH.

00:07:48: Because ETH has a nice incubator, which is called Student Project House where basically they want to give all the means towards students.

00:07:57: To be able build their business or start as startup.

00:08:01: so that have this amazing building very close to ETH Centrum Where you can just go every day and it's... You could say twenty-four seven in the building Just working And we've got coaches.

00:08:13: They provide all of our support and the ecosystem, because people at the end build the ecosystem.

00:08:19: And this is I think where my mentality was formed to become a founder... ...because i learned a lot from all that people are on me.

00:08:28: So when back there- Because they had friends actually who introduced me into their place.. ..and also couldn't stop going in so spending initially of course like all my weekends, and then full-time.

00:08:40: All the weeks as well there just working on projects until I found the right

00:08:45: project.".

00:08:46: So they also kind of found your tribe –the people that had this growth mindset?

00:08:49: Exactly yes!

00:08:51: And how did it happen?

00:08:52: you found the idea for white flow at the

00:08:55: end?".

00:08:55: It was a very iterative process.

00:08:57: we started out from different domains which were biotech because my co-founder, she studied data science but was mostly analyzing data for cancer treatments and everything related to biotech.

00:09:10: So we started out with an idea in that space.

00:09:13: I am genuinely curious about a lot of stuff so i'm very open.

00:09:17: But after a while, we realized that it was too early for the idea because yeah.

00:09:21: It's very researchy ideas and you know pharma are very slow And its not easiest market to start with.

00:09:30: So since both had background in AI and tech and software development We just started validating lot of problems Analyzing the market and understanding where something could fit And we saw that there was this boom of like coding tools just coming out.

00:09:48: So, we read a lot things online and talked to users and pinpointed all the issues then formulated an idea around it.

00:09:59: We applied to YC with just an idea because they had prototype built in one week and tested for users but didn't have product launched yet so got into YC!

00:10:11: Congratulations.

00:10:12: That's amazing!

00:10:13: Can you quickly share a bit about why Combinator for people that maybe are not familiar

00:10:18: with?

00:10:18: Yeah, so why?

00:10:18: Cominator is startup incubator.

00:10:21: it's the best in world.

00:10:22: they initially invest half a million dollars In your company and You basically fly to San Francisco For two-and-a-half months or ten weeks.

00:10:34: They provide you again with all the support from partners, so there are general partners that have regular meetings and they advise you.

00:10:43: And then of course put in contact to all the amazing network YC.

00:10:46: They organize events for huge people like Brancheski or Sam Oldman or incredible people on the Silicon Valley ecosystem And at the end of ten weeks, there is Demo Day.

00:10:58: So you present in front of tons of investors and raise your rounds.

00:11:03: so basically... Yeah!

00:11:04: You raise your investment round after two months and a half while Combinator finishes but it doesn't stop because it just continues living with you Because again you are in contact with your batchmates.

00:11:19: they're going to be friends for life.

00:11:20: Of course, it's a very stressful period of time.

00:11:22: so you bond a lot and I'm still in contact with all my friends from YC.

00:11:27: And i can just meet my general partner to ask for advice or use the network for anything that will do with my company.

00:11:36: Very interesting!

00:11:37: When we talk about your product Wipeflow Can you explain what it does?

00:11:43: What problem it solves?

00:11:45: At higher level, WipeFlow allows non-technical people And to build many things because the product evolved a lot.

00:11:52: So now we have several products.

00:11:54: initially, We started out as I said like a bad putting tool so it allowed non-technical people to build full stack applications and then it evolved into more!

00:12:03: It could allow you to build automations with the front end and incredible UIs for your website.

00:12:09: Right Now.

00:12:10: i told you that were launching new product graphical assets or marketing assets.

00:12:18: That means anything that can go from posters to ads, to carousels, to pricing proposal documents project documents all on brand basically automating the generation of the asset set.

00:12:30: your company needs for growth and this is a huge problem that every founder has me as well because I need To post a lot on social media And they need to post out of growth content.

00:12:46: it takes me a lot of time.

00:12:48: So I am the new user on my new platform as well, and that's super cool!

00:12:53: Because you're also software developer right?

00:12:55: Even at the beginning of Wipeflow we were basically solving problems with yourself so... It is probably quite exciting to be building a product which you want use your self

00:13:04: too Yes but i wouldn't say was the ICP for the initial products.. I'm now with this new product But in the initial product most are getting really known technical people to unlock something, like allow them the possibility of being creative.

00:13:20: I would say that's the mantra... Allow anyone to be creative without an obstacle knowing how to code.

00:13:25: and it is not super easy because you have to simplify a very complex domain.

00:13:32: It isn't super easy but i think its nice as teaching You need to reach a level of simplicity which was almost given.

00:13:40: I quickly want to stay a bit on Wipeflow, because of course... ...I also work in software development so i'm interested to learn more about this platform that you're building.

00:13:48: You are the developer for this as well right?

00:13:50: How did you do it?

00:13:51: Did you use Wipecoding too?

00:13:53: code your product?

00:13:54: Yeah Of course!

00:13:57: We used tons of WipeCoding and we got tons of credits from many companies to use their tools and we develop all the time with vibe coding tools.

00:14:09: But of course you need, so I don't think it would have been able to do this if i didn't experience software development before especially in web development.

00:14:20: why?

00:14:20: because you need a proper architecture.

00:14:24: otherwise the vibe coding tool does a mess And it just keeps duplicating code and creating vulnerabilities of code.

00:14:31: It's really, really bad.

00:14:33: so you must have anyways full control over the architecture of this software.

00:14:38: then after the architecture is set up than can start fronting maybe review PRs that agent opens but always to have some level of control because otherwise its not okay put a product out without knowing If there are vulnerabilities, if the data of their users is secured and so on.

00:15:01: So

00:15:02: here we're probably also touching a bit of attention point with any Vibe coding tools that are out there.

00:15:08: as software developers ourselves We know that Vibe Coding has potential risks but build products for anyone to create tools and websites.

00:15:18: How does Wipeflow deal with this?

00:15:19: You have to put a lot of guardrails around, With the full stack in automation product it was more difficult.

00:15:25: so for example with the automation product how we solved these was really by creating components So parametrized components.

00:15:32: if you use components that you can only allow changing the parameterization Of these components but you cannot really change The body And the core of these components.

00:15:41: and This is how would put card rails.

00:15:45: a problem because again, it's just the creation of like front-end and UI elements components.

00:15:50: So that's okay but in general It is pretty complicated problem And there are tons of companies right now doing AI tools for security.

00:15:59: so yeah assessing this security or AI generated code.

00:16:02: I think we're also still on process taking control or regulating AI In way That can be used safely by anyone.

00:16:10: really i think There's vision and promise.

00:16:12: This is possible But would you say quite there yet.

00:16:15: I think it's incredible what happened in the last year, one year ago i started using cloud code and before that...I don't even know how I did without but yeah..one year ago I started using Cloudcode And now It is basically impossible to live without it!

00:16:30: I think of course we're gonna improve a lot ..and idk whats going on.

00:16:34: next four years We are gonna reach AGI if not already But Yeah There will always be need a human in the loop.

00:16:46: Probably it's gonna have a marginal role, but there is always going to be at any job.

00:16:51: I responsible person checking

00:16:53: mm-hmm and also person that understands how It works under.

00:16:56: who tried yeah

00:16:58: But you know like right now they're developing software for agents.

00:17:01: so basically Sort of like a gyro for agent meaning that there is this master agent That handles the team of sub agents And that's incredible because It's like a, I don't know it's crumb master.

00:17:14: They just you know organizes the sprint for their sub agents and that is concept to me is incredible.

00:17:21: Do have an example of user or customer who has been using Wipeflow?

00:17:25: And what kind products they are building with it?

00:17:27: Yeah!

00:17:27: For automation platform was super cool because we had growth companies That were creating lots tools for customers Basically wanted handle their customers front end meaning dashboard where basically could see metrics any deliverable from the company to the client in this customized dashboard.

00:17:47: This is the core of it, you can build customized software for your customers and just display any real data so that you can fetch or call an API.

00:17:57: then you can call any agent who processed the data.

00:17:59: You can save anything on a database or read from any database as well And this is unlocking many possibilities.

00:18:05: Just imagine any kind of business has to interface themselves with a customer And they don't have a way to handle the deliverable in good ways.

00:18:15: Now you can just give this unified deliverable with everything on it, and that goes... I mean we were focusing on growth companies and we had tons of use cases there but that goes from wedding planners into any kind of business!

00:18:32: That is very cool for me.

00:18:34: We also saw some users building bots and not only bots for like iMessage, but also bots with an admin panel where they could control or the settings of the bot.

00:18:46: So you can really build any kind of tool with it.

00:18:49: that depends on if you choose to be very horizontal or focus on a specific use case.

00:18:55: I can't really see how your eyes stay light up when we talk about this.

00:18:57: so... Very cool!

00:18:59: When first learned about Wipeflow what I found intriguing was there.

00:19:04: At the time, there were already a lot of tools out there to build just the front end part.

00:19:08: But they're very bad at integrating with the back-end or with databases and so on.

00:19:12: And so with wide flow you are feeling a bit of this gap right?

00:19:16: Yes absolutely I think it's still problem because now most of the web coding tool is out there that integrates back ends but its an issue due to visualization layer in my opinion.

00:19:28: So anytime our user doesn't know what he doing As I say, in the front then you have feedback.

00:19:36: Immediate feedback but in the back and no idea what's happening.

00:19:39: And so unless you absolutely test whole platform end-to-end it is very hard to understand What's Happening?

00:19:46: Well with visualization layer on top You can just understand exactly and simulate every single workflow and understand whats happening from input to output.

00:19:56: So that for sure still a problem and still unresolved.

00:20:00: There are still lot of work for your to do.

00:20:02: Yes

00:20:03: Cool.

00:20:04: I want to quickly come back to your life in San Francisco and, in general like the Silicon Valley startup world because i think for us sometimes being here in Switzerland the ecosystem is very different.

00:20:13: it's hard to imagine how this must be.

00:20:15: can you share a little bit more?

00:20:17: The differences between Switzerland and Silicon Valley for you?

00:20:19: Uh-huh so...I love Switzerland!

00:20:21: And I think there is a very cool ecosystem here in Zurich as well.

00:20:24: but I would say mostly for robotics and deep tech startups.

00:20:29: So..i would say that's the focus In San Francisco.

00:20:33: everything is super fast and everyone is very, very hyped.

00:20:36: So first of all if you talk about... You go to a bar And you are sitting next to an investor and the potential customer and yeah same old man.

00:20:45: probably It's very easy to meet people and they're only in the same bubble.

00:20:52: so it's very hard To find people that aren't on the tech startup bubble.

00:20:57: but I also like Everyone believes in what you're doing there.

00:21:01: So as soon as they start doing something, everyone hypes you up and wants to help you.

00:21:05: so There is this very nice culture In the Silicon Valley specifically of everyone helping each other And it's really something that I noticed when i arrived here... ...I don't think It's a matter Of opportunism in the sense That I do favor with you and your gonna do it for me But its' really like a cultural or founder-cultural thing.

00:21:23: Where..of course Like....i dont remember who did last favor but I'm gonna keep doing favors to you and at some point, You're going to do a favor for me.

00:21:32: And this is something also Paul Graham which the founder of My Combinator talked about in a very nice talk he did in Stockholm like month ago... ...and i think it's super true!

00:21:42: It's really real true.

00:21:43: The amount of help that received when was there When am there?

00:21:47: Is really huge.

00:21:49: So thats for sure.

00:21:49: one thing then other things.

00:21:51: its easy too for people to use your tools like.

00:21:54: it's very easy to sell, because they are less risk adverse than here in Europe.

00:22:02: And that is also true of investors so much.

00:22:04: Investors in Europe are more hard-to-convince.

00:22:09: Investor in the

00:22:10: U.S.,

00:22:11: just very fast and they're more prone to risks... That just speeds you up!

00:22:17: So I would say those are the main differences.

00:22:20: Do you also see some downsides of the hype in San Francisco?

00:22:24: So, down sides.

00:22:26: I mean as i said it's a bubble.

00:22:27: so sometimes you risk to only see that perspective off-the-bubble and you have to understand that San Francisco is three years ahead!

00:22:36: So whatever San Francisco happening now its probably gonna arrive in Europe in a long time You know...so if you only listen to their feedback or San Francisco your risks to think you're never enough, because San Francisco moves so fast that every day there is a new competitor and then in the company.

00:22:55: And your risk to die?

00:22:57: So how do you make sure with white flow we are not falling into that risk

00:23:02: by keeping going back and forth?

00:23:04: No no I think just like talking to users.

00:23:07: of course We talk about two users all around the world Because they have users from everywhere but also families and networks In Italy, in France because the micro foundry is from France.

00:23:21: And of course then we have a network in San Francisco as well

00:23:24: and can you share it?

00:23:25: A little bit about this hacker house that you mentioned at beginning.

00:23:29: how was that?

00:23:29: yeah so I mean they are friends from Zurich that also joined Wycombinator and we just happened to be hosted by them when were there.

00:23:40: And it's crazy because, you know on a Friday night You don't feel bad if your not going out Because everyone is working.

00:23:47: so It's just I dont'know who watched The Office.

00:23:51: Okay its sort of like similar vibes.

00:23:53: Like always they're working and it starts being funny To spend all the time there, and it's also I think I would say super motivating because of course you're not spending time with average people but your spendin' time top-of the notch.

00:24:06: People like they are really good!

00:24:09: And... You learn so much by being surrounded by a team y'know?

00:24:15: Of another fast growing startup ...and yeah..I really loved it.

00:24:21: It was just very, very fun.

00:24:23: Also they have a sauna in the garden and daily very close to the Golden Gate Bridge.

00:24:27: so it's...it was a very nice experience yes.

00:24:31: And how many other women are on this bubble in

00:24:35: Silicon Valley?

00:24:36: Yeah not many.

00:24:37: I mean me or my founder, my co-founders.

00:24:41: we're both women.

00:24:41: i think that is really rare.

00:24:43: there were two teams at White Combinator where only women founded But yeah, the majority of teams were mostly men.

00:24:53: I would say that was not a problem in My Combinator because everyone is super nice and nobody really made it feel weird inside the My Cominator ecosystem but outside there are always people who just happy to comment or be negative about attack.

00:25:13: You're also active on social media, right?

00:25:15: You probably have to in a way as well.

00:25:17: As the founder of this world how is that experience for you in general?

00:25:22: at beginning I was scared because it's not used to post so much but yeah LinkedIn works super well for us.

00:25:28: i think linkedin loves The story Because we had an inspiring story and people started knowing for our story, and so they want support.

00:25:38: And LinkedIn is generally very positive social media.

00:25:43: but then it depends because there's also Twitter... I mean we're good on Twitter but Twitter is more mean i would say?

00:25:51: It depends which social media you use.

00:25:53: yeah..I'm not scared anymore of posting and just like comes very natural right now!

00:25:57: And its super nice because the worst thing for a startup And the moment you start, have a good storytelling and just share anything that goes from founder's life to product updates.

00:26:12: You don't know who your reaching?

00:26:15: Of course algorithm does its magic and reaches right people!

00:26:19: That helps in anything with products or companies.

00:26:23: so I think everyone should post much more.

00:26:27: So it was like getting used too also... probably building a company in public, right?

00:26:33: So you share a lot about founders life and so on.

00:26:36: How did you also deal with that emotionally for yourself?

00:26:39: Yeah it's a roller coaster but I think i learned so much to become stable like instability during the Wacom Inter batch last summer.

00:26:48: It was harder because your running is super stressful.

00:26:51: sprint And don't sleep Don't do sport.

00:26:56: its very stressful working home with your co-founder.

00:27:01: So I think in those two months and a half, that was harder but after that i think you just get used to it because you have to write.

00:27:09: so the priority is the company.

00:27:10: You want the company succeed.

00:27:12: there are lot of emotions But its good also to have a co-finder for that Because when you're up then maybe she's down And one year down She's up...and so It's..it's a journey!

00:27:21: But I think became super super resilient With time.

00:27:24: At the beginning it was harder but with time got use to it You know you start caring much less about things.

00:27:31: You cared more before especially The outside world and started caring much last because you don't have the capacity to do that And it's you realize is not useful at all even if want to get feedback on your product, and you just need To put out things.

00:27:46: so you're for sure gonna reach some kind of like yeah negative feedback or anything That goes against you right but it's good because that's the only way to learn some.

00:28:00: I would say my mindset change a lot.

00:28:02: and how do you sort through the noise like, How do you actually recognize?

00:28:08: The feedback that you're getting from outside world is reasonable and valuable for you.

00:28:13: there are like User testing and user interviews in a specific way.

00:28:19: So I don't know if you know the mom test, but yeah It's a framework on how to conduct this user interviews.

00:28:24: And If You ask The questions In A right Way Then You Don't Bias the user Basically.

00:28:30: so if you Ask Questions You don't have to have confirmation bias, basically.

00:28:35: So you also ask questions in a way that allows them not because they want make happy but really are responding into the question.

00:28:43: so yeah it's very nice book and I keep reading this because i always forget um...I think thats for sure.

00:28:50: one thing then we understand who your ICP is conduct interviews based on the ICP targeted interview And of course, some interviews are not going to be targeted because they're gonna be inbound.

00:29:04: So you cannot control those but you really need to nail down who the person is in front of us too.

00:29:10: so that first thing we do in an interview asking everything possible about what a person does?

00:29:15: Who he or she uses and what tool it uses... What background this person has etc.

00:29:20: This is super important for removing the noise.

00:29:23: Would you also say that your spending a bit more time now on these sort of user interviews than actually building the product?

00:29:30: Yeah, I think.

00:29:31: That's the most important thing like what You should do.

00:29:34: okay.

00:29:34: You should either always talk to users or they're always build a product but i think right Now in this world software is getting less and lesser value.

00:29:45: And it's all about distribution, how do you nail distribution?

00:29:48: by knowing exactly who your user is?

00:29:50: What are the

00:29:51: problems?".

00:29:52: It's super important to talk with users so we can do that more every day.

00:29:57: I also became much better at the beginning because I was like yes but why would i need these kind of questions?

00:30:04: The more you go deep ,the more advantage you have compared to your competitors.

00:30:11: it doesn't make any sense to make a product if you don't know what problem it solves, who uses it and who is the user that keeps coming back.

00:30:18: And for what?

00:30:19: So that's super important!

00:30:22: Along the way... You already touched on this.

00:30:24: as female founder It might sometimes feel harder to build.

00:30:28: What would you recommend someone still wants to do like support systems or are there some tricks?

00:30:35: For sure support system That's very important I'd say.

00:30:39: Also try to find other female founders.

00:30:42: You know, just sympathize with.

00:30:45: I think so.

00:30:47: something happened once that was like a post where they were just commenting about us being women and as white community are having a quota system and equality criteria.

00:30:57: And in the moment of course you don't... Like i read all the comments which shouldn't have.

00:31:02: it's not useful okay?

00:31:03: So don't read this kind of content.

00:31:05: but if you do In the moment it feels bad, but after that you realize its very stupid.

00:31:10: But I would say in those moments just use that as an advantage because they're gonna talk about YOU and give you publicity!

00:31:19: So just use THAT and maybe ride that wave.

00:31:22: so what i will do if go back in time is to repost that post and make it very funny or like yeah... Ride the wave Because It's not important.

00:31:32: nobody cares and the world keeps spinning.

00:31:35: nobody cares at the end.

00:31:36: If you are talented and that you believe in what your doing, then world is going to

00:31:39: notice.".

00:31:40: And it doesn't matter of what people think.

00:31:43: Of course its harder because people belive less than you somehow... At least they're majority not intelligent but there's tons of people who actually do believe in you!

00:31:57: That so amazing especially now like in twenty-twenty six.

00:32:02: So many people don't even question, whether you're a man or woman and it just supports no matter what.

00:32:09: And so many people actually want to support you exactly because of your women

00:32:12: Do have like personal experience?

00:32:14: Or story that you can share.

00:32:15: that illustrates that a bit.

00:32:18: I would say generally as women when we talk with the people We are more precise towards our product...we know all the flaws about products.

00:32:26: So..We tend be more humble while men, if they have to sell a product and are not humble at all.

00:32:34: So I think that in the beginning of this journey was also more humble but later with time i understood you must have conviction because nobody else is gonna do it.

00:32:46: so...I would say..i had some episodes where It Was My Faults Because I somehow was too humble And then compared myself Vetch mates, and I saw how they were talking.

00:33:01: And how do we're acting?

00:33:02: It was like okay, let's just change your attitude.

00:33:05: then it changed.

00:33:06: everything changes because you manifest the outcome at the end.

00:33:09: so i would say yes an episode where when this happened...it was my fault!

00:33:15: So I talked in a way that should have been different.

00:33:21: yeah..I think thats the point Mm-hmm.

00:33:24: I would maybe challenge a little bit that it was your fault, i think there's a lot of factors that go into that right.

00:33:28: also how we grow up or How are told to behave in a way even when they're small girls?

00:33:35: Right um We get told may be already there Or we get feedback That will draw us Into that direction.

00:33:41: so not sure It Was Your Fault but i Think it is really important as women To Be aware Of that.

00:33:47: There Is This Tendency to be A Bit more to honest at times, especially in the founder world.

00:33:52: Right?

00:33:52: This is now that you've learned that and I can really see this—that you have this sort of attitude like go-getter.

00:33:58: just let's make it happen.

00:34:00: Do you also see yourself as a role model for others?

00:34:05: Of course!

00:34:05: Like...I think already And what i always tend do is when people open up with me about their future, whether they're insecure about changing paths or deciding on a career decision.

00:34:21: I always want to absolutely help them!

00:34:23: i was at the wedding that early and it spent like one hour talking to um uh...a girl That was struggling with this And he really becomes sort of my goal To help them.

00:34:33: because..I went through it and I really wanted him see there's There is a light at the end of that tunnel and there you can do anything, nobody cares.

00:34:42: That's the message Nobody cares.

00:34:44: You can't do anything with your life And nobody cares.

00:34:46: So I would say Yes!

00:34:48: I hope so And...I also love to help.

00:34:52: Anytime people write me on LinkedIn for example Like a lot messages from LinkedIn People.

00:34:58: Maybe they want help With their YC application Or just meet up and talk.

00:35:05: If I have the capacity,I tend to help them because i went through it and just want them not go trough or someone else's opinion.

00:35:15: Yeah definitely agree with that.

00:35:17: you are a role model at least for me.

00:35:20: It is fascinating.

00:35:21: also follow your journey from university to corporate world now in start-up worlds And I think would encourage keep sharing Keep shining light.

00:35:41: Well, now dive into the rapid fire questions.

00:35:44: Are you ready for this?

00:35:45: Mm-hmm Okay So that first question is I mean of course your writing code.

00:35:50: But if you could rewrite code in another product any product of your choice What would it do?

00:35:55: i will change The algorithm Of the search function In the macbook Because they never find any five in my computer.

00:36:03: yeah all right specific but That's cool.

00:36:07: I hope apple Is listening.

00:36:09: All right, for the second one.

00:36:10: What's an everyday act of allyship that anyone can do?

00:36:14: I think maybe giving more responsibilities to women in general like believing them just believe it anymore.

00:36:22: i would say

00:36:23: yeah there is also your experience.

00:36:25: Yeah!

00:36:25: That builds up their confidence as well.

00:36:29: Cool love that.

00:36:30: and whose voices you think tech needs to hear from?

00:36:33: Female founders...I'd love to hear so many stories about female founders And heard some doing YC and it was super inspiring.

00:36:41: Cool, then we'll wrap up with the last one.

00:36:44: if listeners remember just one single thing from this whole conversation what should be?

00:36:48: Well try Vypzlo I would say don't think that The Path is already written And you're always able to take action on your life.

00:37:03: Just do what you are passionate about and believe in and persist in that

00:37:09: Awesome.

00:37:09: Thank you so much, Alessia for this wonderful conversation and all the best to the future!

00:37:26: her life as a startup founder between Silicon Valley and Switzerland.

00:37:31: What stuck with me first, and foremost is of course so inspiring to see young woman just going for her dream of building something big And I'm very excited to see where this journey's going For Alessia & Her co-founder and her current start up white flow.

00:37:48: Another thing that stuck with Me Is also surrounding yourself With the right people.

00:37:53: finding the ecosystems environments where you can fulfill your dreams, whether that's founding a company or something else is really important.

00:38:02: And the interesting distinction between Silicon Valley and Zurich were of course Silicon valley in itself as also bubble but if we find the right people and do manage to sort through the noise and recognize this signal it could be help you grow a lot.

00:38:19: Also what sets you apart when building a product or when founding a company is not so much the actual building of it, but also understanding what problem your solving.

00:38:30: And I love how Alessia explained that through user interviews and who they're building for.

00:38:38: And then last but not least, very important that we hear more stories of female founders in tech because there are not a lot of them out there.

00:38:45: But the stories at least I know and the story Valécia showed as well are really inspiring and they can be this spark that maybe someone is looking for.

00:38:55: Thank you all so much for tuning in today and for listening to this episode.

00:39:00: If you have any thoughts on what Alessia shared or we talked about, let us know in the comments!

00:39:05: Or write an email to podcast at hellofiftyfifty.world.

00:39:11: We also love to hear from your own Patreon.

00:39:13: if you're not supporting us yet.

00:39:15: really encourage you do that there... ...we are interacting with YOU ON THE PODCAST EPISODES an episode specifically coming just for the Patreon members, a reflection on some of the previous episodes that I will be doing.

00:39:30: And we'd love to hear from you actually questions that you have or things that we should discuss in this episode and would call Retrospective which is coming soon!

00:39:39: If someone should listen into this and here Alessia's story please forward them this podcast.

00:39:49: How many women do you have in your environment, in tech that you believe and want to support?

00:39:55: And how often would like them know about this.

00:39:59: Thank you so much until next time!